Roman pronunciations

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  anonymous 4 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #15477

    mwebster
    Participant

    I suspect 'Tacitus' would have been pronounced 'Takitus' not 'Tasitus', just as 'celt' is pronounced 'kelt' and not self'. By the same logic, considering both the German 'Kaiser' and the Russian 'Tsar' both come from the Roman word 'Caesar', I suspect the pronunciation would have been more like 'Kayser' or 'Keeser' even, and that the J was soft, in other words pronounced like a y as in german and Dutch, so where we say 'Julius Seezer' it was probable more like 'Yulius Kayser' – but does anyone with any latin knowledge want to weight in?

  • #17444

    anonymous
    Participant

    Erm … you're right … but Yoolioos Keysaar would be closer.It's like the word circa. Why must people say sir-ka. It should be Kirkaar.Then again, you can get away with Kirkaar but sound and awful prat saying Yoolioos Keysaar!

  • #17445

    WhovianKate
    Participant

    That's one of my pet peeves, pronouncing it “selt” or “seltik” if Boston wants to be weird about their basketball team that's their business but they're ruining it for the rest of us!Am I correct in thinking that the use of Russian "Tsar" implies that at least some Roman nobility fled in that direction during/after the fall of the Empire?

  • #17446

    Jonny the Grognard
    Participant

    I'm too lazy to say where Tsar came from so take this http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/TOO_TUM/TSAR_or_CZAR.html

  • #17447

    Liam
    Participant

    Is it a similar story to how kaiser started in germany? Not that i know the origins of either of them but just curious

  • #17448

    Jonny the Grognard
    Participant

    Oh yes and one more thing. Both forms pronunciations of Celt, that is Kelt and Selt, are correct. And Kaiser is in fact much closer to the way Caesar would have been spoken at the time because, as far as I know, all Cs where pronounced as a hard K, so see-zer becomes Kai-sar. 

  • #17449

    WhovianKate
    Participant

    interesting article, but it seems to be saying that the use was a later affectation and not directly connected with the fall of Rome so that answers my question.

  • #17450

    anonymous
    Participant

    Kaiser came about when Otto von Bismark unified Germany and got all the duchies/princedoms to agree to the Prussian dynasty to rule Germany.  They all wanted glorious names and felt that they were as good as or better than the Russians, so why not Kaiser as a title.  I think I like Kaiser rather than Fuhrer, which innocuously enough means leader.  Keep in Mind the first Kaiser's wife was one of Queen Victoria's daughters and Queen Victoria was Empress of India by the 1880s.

  • #17451

    Jacob_Stevens
    Participant

    Am I correct in thinking that the use of Russian “Tsar” implies that at least some Roman nobility fled in that direction during/after the fall of the Empire?

    The reason for the use of "Tsar" is Moscow being associated by some as being the "Third Rome", after the fall of Constantinople in 1415 (which was called by Constantine the "Second Rome").  Russian Tsars saw themselves as the continuation of the legacy of Rome and saw themselves as being in the legacy of the great Caesars of the past, so they adopted the Russian version of the name, calling themselves "Tsars." Hope that helps clear things up for you!  ;D

  • #17452

    Jonny the Grognard
    Participant

    Am I correct in thinking that the use of Russian "Tsar" implies that at least some Roman nobility fled in that direction during/after the fall of the Empire?

    The reason for the use of "Tsar" is Moscow being associated by some as being the "Third Rome", after the fall of Constantinople in 1415 (which was called by Constantine the "Second Rome").  Russian Tsars saw themselves as the continuation of the legacy of Rome and saw themselves as being in the legacy of the great Caesars of the past, so they adopted the Russian version of the name, calling themselves "Tsars." Hope that helps clear things up for you!  ;D

    Just a quick note. The fall of Constantinople was in 1453.

  • #17453

    Jacob_Stevens
    Participant

    YES I don't know what I smoking lol Thank you for that.  I think I had Agincourt on the mind  :P

  • #17454

    WhovianKate
    Participant

    that is fantastic, thank you! I think along with British history I'll have to check out Russian history, as well. Also, I'm checking out the History of English podcast, which for a philology nut like me is really interesting, talks about the history of the language from all the way back to Proto-IndoEuropean, I recommend it as an additional way to look at history (although at this point it's talking about the development of Greek and Latin, haven't gotten anywhere close to Britain yet)

  • #17455

    anonymous
    Participant

    …Also, I'm checking out the History of English podcast, which for a philology nut like me is really interesting…

    That sounds great. *googling*

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