This topic contains 3 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Jamie 4 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #15963


    In one of the podcasts, Jamie said "kilts and tartans are as authentic as Disneyland" and mentioned that the small kilt (the one that many people think of as a kilt) had actually been introduced by an Englishman.A local friend of mine of Scottish-descent is particularly keen on his Scottish-ness and when, in a car discussion (appropriate apparel for fancy car shows),  he mentioned that he had three kilts, I responded with the quote above.  Things did not go well from there  ;)Researching various points in our discussion, it started to become clear to me that the fact that an Englishman was the first to introduce the small kilt has been discredited. It seems more likely that the small kilt had been introduced by a Scot before then.Also, even if Jamie was correct that an Englishman introduced the small kilt, his comparison between the provenance of the small kilt and the Utilikilt seemed odd.  The latest date for the introduction of the small kilt is the early 1700s (300 years ago) and the Utilikilt was introduced in the 1990s (20 years ago).alan

  • #19316


    when does “authentic” start anyway?It's such an odd term - kilts of various types have been popular in many parts of the world. They happen to be popular in Scotland now.

  • #19317


    Jamie is correct – -it was invented by an Englishman, in Edinburgh I believe . . however this should not stop the Scots from identifying themselves by it.  Most things are carried or brought from somewhere else anyway.

  • #19318


    Tipo, you're making my statements sound a lot more affirmative than they were.  And I'm sure that you know from Seasons 2 and 3 that I generally leave room for debate in most of my comments.  What I said was “there is a good chance that…”  And honestly, there /is/ a good chance.  That's because Thomas Rawlinson is generally credited with inventing it in the 18th century, and there are even contemporary public writings from the 18th century regarding this fact and they weren't attacked, argued against, or anything of the like by individuals at the time.  Now is it possible that someone somewhere might have been wearing something similar earlier?  Sure.  Things like that happen all the time.  But what I find rather interesting is that we have accounts of its invention that are fairly close in time to when it was said to have been invented, and no contrary accounts that state "Hey, that's a load of bollocks!"  That says to me that if it was invented earlier, it probably wasn't widely used because not a single contemporary person said "Rawlinson is full of it, he didn't invent anything other than copyright infringement."Also, while I'm defending myself and correcting the account so I don't sound like I'm just bloviating random unsupported facts, I didn't say that small kilts were as authentic as Disneyland.  What I said was that Hugh Trevor Roper said that.  And when I said that bagpipes and the small kilt are marginally older than the utilikilt, you have to listen to my tone.  I was making a joke.  Actually, the bag pipes are old as hell, they're just not particularly Scottish.I try to be pretty careful with this stuff because I know all I have is my credibility and your trust.  :)

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